Originally by: Cpt Branko

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Originally by: DaDutchDude

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Where I am starting to have a big problem is the way a lot of veteran players that enjoy PVP systematicly pick on 'care bearing'. What is so wrong with people enjoying this game in the relative safety of high sec space and NPC corps? They have great value to other players in the game by providing minerals to the market, building ships, etc. They also have a value in that they support the economic survival of EVE Online as a game. If only the hard-core PVP crowd was playing, there would never have been a lot of the expansions that have made EVE an even richer experience. Carebears have great value to the game, and I think it's time that the PVP bullies start accepting that and stop picking on them

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Exactly the opposite. See, the 'carebears' who impact the economy from the relative (nearly absolute now) security of high-sec are, basically, unfair competition (favoured by game mechanics) to anyone trying to do mining/etc anywhere else. By injecting massive amounts of minerals/salvage/etc in the market (while spending little, because they don't lose ships), they reduce the prices, and therefore nerf the 0.0 miner, the low-sec miner (which nobody does now), pirates (lower module prices) and preety much everyone else. They are not isolated from the rest of us. If they had their own market and their own currency and didn't affect us, nobody would care.

As for the subscriptions, imagine EvE without PvP. Industry/mining/most of PvE becomes utterly pointless, as the ships aren't lost quickly enough to create market demand, economy dies, and what's left of EvE then? We can spin the 'neccesary for this game' multiple ways.

Originally by: DaDutchDude

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They seem to prefer the non-challenging non-consentual combat, reaping the benefits in ISK and bragging rights on their precious kill boards over the actual challenge of stepping up against equals, being pilots also skilled and fitted for PVP.

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The pirate who doesn't try to pick fights he think he can win is soon to be:
(a) buying GTCs and selling for ISK
(b) having mining/mission running alts in high-sec (many do this)
(c) quitting

Reason?

Look, let me explain piracy economics. Let's say I fly the minimum ship required for any gate work, a BC. Say, I'm flying a Hurricane.

Costs
Cost of ship = 33M.
Insurance cost = 12M (insurance payout = 36.5M)
Drones: 1M
Ammo: 1-2M
T2/named fittings: 17M (preety much minimum)
Cheap rigs (optional, but they help a ton): 9M

LOSS COST (Total cost-insurance payout) = 37M

Now, assuming you're really uber and kill three hostiles using the same setup. Drop rate is about 50% for the modules.

Dropable items (drones+ammo+fittings): 19.5M
Likely to drop per kill: 9.75M*

Loot value after 3 kills: 29.25M

Net gain/loss: -7.75M

See, if you're fighting competent foes, you need a minimum of 4:1 to break even (hell, a mission farmer will make about 100M in the time you need to find 4 good solo kills).

Now, assuming you're fighting targets you don't outgun, you cannot ransom them (why would I discuss ransom with you if I have chances of killing you), and even if you're really really damn good, you're not going to get better then 4:1.

*I forgot. In a fair fight, with the advent of heat, you will have anywhere from 0.5-1M of heat-related costs, and you'll probably waste about 0.3M of ammo too, so discount that from the loot recieved.

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